Lucifer Moringstar vs. a full powered Spectre with the Spear of Destiny

Discussion:

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Elrah Prime

2003-08-12 05:19:49 UTC

We all know Archangel Michaels has already beaten Spectre, and after
the battle, Spectre realize that if Archangel Michaels could beat him,
so can Lucifer. Now, if a full powered Spectre holding the Spear of
Destiny was to battle Lucifer Morningstar, who would win? The Spear of
Destiny is a powerful artifact that could enhance and boost your
powers. Hitler holding the Spear of Destiny was able to give Spectre a
hard time, now if a full powered Spectre was to have the artifact,
would it be enough powers to defeat a being that's second to God? I
think Lucifer Morningstar would still school Spectre even though he
has the Spear of Destiny, why? Becaue Lucifer is known to beat a god
or a strong cosmic being even in his mortal form. His full extent of
powers is yet to be revealed.

BHMarks

2003-08-12 05:58:54 UTC

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The Spectre would find himself in a position where he has to defile the Holy
Grail in order to help Lucifer accomplish some selfish, ungodly task that, just
incidentally, results in the saving of a ten thousand innocent lives. Lucifer
would then chuckle under his breath and, a glass of wine in his hand, turn his
back on the Spectre, who would leave crestfallen.

As ever,
Bennet

Kevin Chang

2003-08-12 09:22:16 UTC

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Let's Rock?

K.

David Doty

2003-08-12 13:08:04 UTC

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Post by Elrah Prime
We all know Archangel Michaels has already beaten Spectre, and after
the battle, Spectre realize that if Archangel Michaels could beat him,
so can Lucifer.

Wasn't Lucifer's Archangel Michael already imprisoned during the Spectre
series? I don't think the Vertigo-verse Michael and the DCU Michael are
the same.

Dave Doty

Cardinal 1

2003-08-12 16:47:49 UTC

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Post by Elrah Prime
We all know Archangel Michaels has already beaten Spectre, and after
the battle, Spectre realize that if Archangel Michaels could beat him,
so can Lucifer. Now, if a full powered Spectre holding the Spear of
Destiny was to battle Lucifer Morningstar, who would win? The Spear of
Destiny is a powerful artifact that could enhance and boost your
powers. Hitler holding the Spear of Destiny was able to give Spectre a
hard time, now if a full powered Spectre was to have the artifact,
would it be enough powers to defeat a being that's second to God? I
think Lucifer Morningstar would still school Spectre even though he
has the Spear of Destiny, why? Becaue Lucifer is known to beat a god
or a strong cosmic being even in his mortal form. His full extent of
powers is yet to be revealed.

This battle would probably never take place, even if the Vertigo Lucifer
existed in the DCU. The Spectre's mission isn't to tackle the Devil
head-on; that's his "supervisor's" job. In SPECTRE #0, we saw that the
previous Spectre's mission was to understand and confront evil, not to
eliminate it.

Magius

2003-08-13 16:57:59 UTC

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Sorry, but DC Michael and Vertigo Michael is the same. DC wants
Vertigo and DC to merge as one universe or be in the same universe.
Why do you think Daniel or Dream have helped JLA to get rid of Star
Conqueror or even Dr. Destiny? In fact, why do you think Phantom
Stranger have appeared in both DC and Vertigo? Spectre has also
confronted Lucifer before, so that's enough proof that DC Michael and
Vertigo Michael is the same. As for the battle, I'm just want to know
what IF it did happen? I just want to know if Spectre with the Spear
of Destiny powerful enough to beat Lucifer.

I would think that certain series would share space with the main DC
characters like Sandman and the Endless and John Constantine. Hell an
early issue of Sandman had Dream visit the Martian Manhunter, whether
it worked or not is a nother debate wholly, but it is clear that the
Endless and Hellblazer are in the main DCU they are just ignored most
times. Obviously characters like Preacher exist in a separate
universe from both DCU and other Vertigo ones.

Lynley

King Fuzz

2003-08-20 19:38:44 UTC

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Post by Magius

I don't know, I wouldn't say that Spider-man and Batman are in the
same universe just because they did a Spider-man/Batman crossover that
pretended they were. I think DC and Vertigo are generally written to
be in different universes, with occasional crossovers that pretend
they are.

Granted, but does each DC Universe have it's own God, Satan, Angels &
Demons? Doubtful. These are supernatural creatures we are talking
about here.

Hand-of-Omega

2003-08-24 23:14:10 UTC

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Post by Magius

AFAIK, most of the instances cited above were before there even WAS a
Vertigo...In the Morrison story where the JLA fight an army of angels,
are they said to be from the Silver City? And when and where did
Lucifer confront the Spectre??

Post by Magius
Obviously characters like Preacher exist in a separate
universe from both DCU and other Vertigo ones.

Actually, the ending of Preacher might well tie into the latest issues
of Lucifer...^^
Dex,
who wants a Lucifer/Hellblazer crossover NOW!!^_^

Host

2003-08-19 04:43:22 UTC

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Okay, I can see why Hitler used the Spear of Destiny to fight Spectre,
but I can't see why Spectre would use it to fight Lucifer. If Spectre
needed to stop Lucifer, he'd probably get Michael to do so.
Wouldn't he?

All the spectre has to do is take that spear and ram it up Lucifer's ass and
he will die quickly.

Michael Higgins

2003-08-19 20:10:41 UTC

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Unlikely that Morningstar can be killed at all, except by the Big Kahuna
himself.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TELL NO TALES
A story of life in an Age of Terrorism
http://www.tellnotales.info

Post by Host

All the spectre has to do is take that spear and ram it up Lucifer's ass and
he will die quickly.

Host

2003-08-20 03:54:01 UTC

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Post by Michael Higgins
Unlikely that Morningstar can be killed at all, except by the Big Kahuna
himself.

And that would be....
DC's editor in chief!!!

HAHAH

Post by Michael Higgins
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TELL NO TALES
A story of life in an Age of Terrorism
http://www.tellnotales.info

Post by Host

All the spectre has to do is take that spear and ram it up Lucifer's ass

and

Post by Host
he will die quickly.

The Napoleon of Crime

2003-08-20 16:16:36 UTC

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I don't think the Spear of Destiny would do it. I think he'd need one
or more of the following:

- X-ray specs
- Almighty Pez Dispenser
- Ankle-length leather jacket and wrap-around shades
- A "Please Excuse the Spectre" note from God

Personally, I think it would be much more satisfying for the Spectre
to just taunt Lucifer. You know, drive by his digs late at night in a
'53 gull-wing Mercedes, gun the engine, and yell "Hey, Luce, you don't
have THIS one!"; then burn rubber and scream away.

[Apologies to Bill Cosby.]

"There, but for the grace of God, goes God."

-- Herman Mankiewicz on Orson Welles

Jeff Meyer, N.C., N.Q.D.Y.
[Not Quite Dead Yet]

© 2003 by Jeff Meyer

Originally posted to Usenet. Please, redistribute this article
in its entirety and without alterations. Thank you!

Kevin Robinson

2003-08-25 18:16:25 UTC

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"Who would win" arguments can be quite stupid, especially when
one understands that it all comes down to who the writer and
editors are, and what they intend to express by the eventuallly
published story. Hence the "Bat-god" syndrome, which results in
characters who, when schemed out a la a RPG fact-sheet, ought to
trash the Dark Knight in a trice, being laid out by him instead.

Now, if I were in charge of the Lucifer-"Corrrigan's ghost" fight,
both of them wuld be running, ectoplasmic tails between their ethereal
legs, as they were "proved" to be aliens from another dimension or world,
whose physical laws are different than in the Earth's neighborhood. Who
would so dispatch them? Terence Thirteen, PhD, of course!

Well, in the DCU, who else ya gonna call, but a Ghost Breaker?

Kevin

Hand-of-Omega

2003-08-24 23:10:48 UTC

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This is where you guys always go wrong on these "Who Would Win"
scenarios. It's always POWERS. Who is stronger? What the fact of
the matter is we've seen John Constintine beat Lucifer and his minions
time and time again, using his WITS rather than ANY sort of powers.

This is often true, unless you're talking about a _Street Fighter_
style situation where character's personalities really don't
matter...FIGHT!!

Ergo, I would think that Batman would beat just about anyone, because
he is the master tactitian and planner.

I'd LOVE to read a Batman/Constantine X-over!

With that off my chest, I'd say Lucifer is more POWERFUL, but the
Spectre would win. Spear of Destiny pales compared to the Comics Code
Authority. Good always triumphs over EVIL!

Haven't read much Lucifer, have you? Luce would win, for exactly the
reasons you cite above...Batman and Constantine are about the only
characters I can think of in DC who even *approach* the Morningstar's
level of deviousness...and he's got 6 Billion years worth of
experience on both of them!^^

Dex